Friday, May 6, 2011

What Does the Bible Say About Make-up?



What does the Bible say about wearing make-up?

Anyone who is familiar with the UPC knows that the majority of UPC churches and their affiliates teach against women wearing make-up. The official position of the UPC on make-up is this:
Since the primary effect of makeup is to highlight sex appeal, we reject makeup as immodest1.”

However, since I spent my whole life in the movement I know from personal experience that this is not the view taught in the churches. (At least, I have never heard this view taught.) The argument against make-up that I always heard was taken from three Scriptures (2 Kings 9:30, Jer. 4:30, Eze. 23:40). The reason that it was taken from three Scriptures is because there are only three Scriptures in the entire Bible that say anything against make-up!

You see, make-up is a non-issue Biblically. Nothing was ever said about the subject positively or negatively. There are three Scriptures that make reference to make-up in passing, but none of the three even hint that make-up is a sin. Again, it’s a non-issue.

Unfortunately, the UPC takes these three Scriptures, twists them out of context, and creates a doctrine out of them. That would be bad enough of its own, but the situation is made worse because many UPC churches teach that wearing make-up is a sin. In other words, it’s not an optional doctrine in any UPC church that I’ve ever attended. (The one exception is a church that I attended for five years. The pastor–who I dearly love and respect–allows make-up as long as it does not change the base color of the skin. He is considered extremely liberal by many other pastors.)

In this article I am going to show what the Bible says about make-up, and then respond to the UPC position on the issue.

Well, again historically speaking, if you study Judaism you will find that it is part of their belief that a man fails his wife if he does not provide her with jewelry and cosmetics to make herself look attractive for her husband.

MAKE-UP 
Excerpt  from ‘Refute to Other Holiness Standards ‘
by Ricky Guthrie

The only true argument they can use is the same old stale argument that prostitutes used make-up to seduce men and Jezebel wore it the day she tried to seduce Jehu.

Well, again historically speaking, if you study Judaism you will find that it is part of their belief that a man fails his wife if he does not provide her with jewelry and cosmetics to make herself look attractive for her husband. Also many of the women in the tribes wore heavy make-up when working in the fields because it protected their faces from the harsh sun.

Nowhere in the Bible do we find where the wearing of make-up is prohibited. This again lies with the fact that the ministry of the UPCI wants women to be subservient to men in all aspects, and as in a lot of their teachings, this comes back to human sexuality.

This constant fear of sexual sins. Nearly everything they teach basically comes down to what they think is immodest or what will lead their members to commit sexual sins.

They feel if they allow their women to wear make-up they will attract other men, so if they keep them looking like plain janes they will not commit sexual sins.  It does not matter how many times someone in their movement falls into sexual sin, they don't change their stand.


Make-up 
by Jason

The Scripture mostly used to support the teaching that one is not to wear make-up is:
2 Kings 9:30: And when Jehu was come to Jezreel, Jezebel heard of it; and she painted her face, and tired her head, and looked out at a window.

Proponents of this teaching will say that we really don't want to be a part of anything that has to do with Jezebel.
According to Thayer’s & Smith’s, ‘tired’ here is the Hebrew word ‘yatab’ which means, in short, ‘to be good, be pleasing, be well, be glad’. In other words, she combed her hair.

I can’t say it enough. If because Jezebel put on make-up, then make-up is a sin, then combing you hair is, too. This an just one more example of the lack of Bible scholarship in the UPC. I was always taught that Jezebel was trying to seduce her enemy here. But a basic reading of the text reveals that Jezebel knew she was going to die and was simply mocking her soon to be captor by fixing herself up for her death. She wasn’t putting on make-up to seduce anyone and neither do 85% of the women in the world!

Here is another good one:
Jer 4:30 "‘And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do ? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.'"

Three things are cast in a negative light here (supposedly): 1) Jewelry 2) Make-up 3) The color red. Now the UPC condemns two of these things and they use this scripture to back themselves up, but they, like with braiding, choose to ignore part of the scripture. So, tell me, is it now a sin to wear red too?

I read where someone stated that "looking at a pattern of things in the Word of God, we can safely say that a Godly woman should not wear make-up. If Paul wrote to not wear gold, pearls, or costly array, do you think that make-up would be pleasing to God?"

Oh, so women should not braid their hair, either. I noticed they left that part out. The UPC’ers always say that ‘plaiting’ meant weaving gold into your hair. That might have applied at times, but most often women simply braided their hair without anything in it and I’ve yet to find anywhere that says it means anything other than braiding in general.

An adherent of the no make-up rule might state that the main point in this is actually not the make-up, but the spirit or attitude that would make a woman want to wear make-up that's a sin.

If an 80 year old, happily married grandmother put on little lipstick, which of her motivations are comparable to Jezebel or prostitution? Are you actually suggesting that she is trying to incite lust? Give me a break! But you just about have it – it is the ‘spirit or attitude’ that makes something a sin, not the make-up itself! If a woman puts on make-up to attract men, she is in sin, but if she puts it on simply to look nice, like when she combs her hair, where is the sin?

Often a proponent of these standards teachings will bring up an extreme during a conversation, saying something to the effect that homosexuality will soon be socially accepted and that just because something becomes socially accepted, it is not a reason to do such things as wear make-up or for women to wear pants.

One big difference here, it does not condemn cut hair, pants or make-up on women.

Is Wearing Make-up A Sin?

Now, if you’ve read my article on Jewelry then you read about how sin is defined. I’m not going to repeat it all here. Instead I recommend that you read the section of the article titled “Does the Bible Ever Say That Wearing Jewelry Is A Sin?” I will briefly recap the subject here by reminding you that the Old Testament Law (Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy) defines what sin is (Rom. 7:7). Everything that is a sin in the New Testament was also a sin in the Old Testament Law, but everything that was a sin in the Old Testament Law was not necessarily a sin in the New Testament.

The reason that I said that is to say this: The Bible never defines make-up as a sin. The Old Testament Law was completely silent on the issue, and the New Testament never mentions it at all!

What Does the Bible Say About Make-up?

As I mentioned at the beginning of this article, make-up is only mentioned three times in the Bible (2 Ki. 9:30, Jer. 4:30, Eze. 23:40). Here is what these three Scriptures have to say:
2Ki 9:30 NASB
(30) When Jehu came to Jezreel, Jezebel heard of it, and she painted her eyes and adorned her head and looked out the window.
Jer 4:30 NASB
(30) And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful. Your lovers despise you; They seek your life.
Eze 23:40 NASB
(40) “Furthermore, they have even sent for men who come from afar, to whom a messenger was sent; and lo, they came–for whom you bathed, painted your eyes and decorated yourselves with ornaments.

One does not have to be a Bible scholar to see that none of these Scriptures say anything about whether or not a person should wear make-up! However, there is also a fourth Scripture that I often heard used to preach against make-up. It is 1 Tim. 2:9, which says:
1Ti 2:9 NASB
(9) Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

You might be asking at this point how 1 Tim. 2:9 has anything to do with make-up, and that’s a very valid question! The confusion seems to come from a misunderstanding of the KJV translation of the Scripture. The KJV uses the word “shamefacedness” instead of “modesty.” As near as I’ve been able to figure out, many UPC preachers assume that “shamefacedness” means that a person shouldn’t wear make-up. The logic seems to be that it has the word “face” inside of “shamefacedness” so therefore it must be talking about make-up. This is an example of the sort of shoddy Biblical study that is done by many UPC preachers and pastors.

Overwhelming Evidence?

I think anyone will agree that these four Scriptures are hardly overwhelming evidence against make-up! The fact is, the Bible just doesn’t say whether or not a woman can wear make-up! We have to assume that if it mattered at all to God then He would have mentioned it at least once, right? Why should we have to take a few Scriptures that are hidden in the depths of the Old Testament and twist them together in a convoluted fashion to form a doctrine? It seems to me that God was pretty plain about the stuff that mattered to Him! For example, look at Gal. 5:19-21:
Gal 5:19-21 NASB
(19) Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
(20) idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
(21) envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
That’s pretty plain, right? I just don’t think God’s sitting up there seeing how many people He can trick into going to hell! A god who does that is the antithesis of the God of the Bible!

A Few Questions for the UPC:

Here’s a question that I have for the UPC:
If make-up is evil because it enhances our sex appeal, then what other things are we not allowed to do?
  • Are we not allowed to wear deoderant?
  • Are we not allowed to brush our hair?
  • Are we not allowed to wear color-coordinated outfits?
  • Are we not allowed to wear matching socks?
You see, I really want to enhance my sex appeal! I’m 26, and I want to get married some day! Because of that I do all sorts of stuff to enhance my sex appeal! I brush my teeth twice a day, I style my hair, I make sure my socks match, I exercise regularly enough to keep the worst of the flab off, etc. What’s wrong with doing that? Just because a woman wants to make herself attracted doesn’t mean that she’s promiscuous! Every single one of us does things every day to enhance our attractiveness to the opposite sex!
Here are a few other questions:
  • If 2 Kings 9:30 is saying that make-up is evil because Jezebel used it, then doesn’t it also mean that we can’t look out the window?
  • If Jer. 4:30 is saying that make-up is evil because Israel wore it while they were backslidden, then doesn’t it also mean that wearing scarlet is evil?
  • If Eze. 23:40 is saying that make-up is evil because Israel wore it while they were backslidden, then doesn’t it mean that it’s also evil to take a bath?
Isn’t this all a little bit ridiculous?!

Conclusion:

You see, this is the problem with UPC theology: It’s a house of cards. The UPC has made the claim that they and their affiliates are the only ones who possess Truth. But what happens when they find out that something they taught as Truth was wrong? It throws everything else into question! If they can be wrong on one point then they can be wrong on other points as well.

I believe that this is what is happening with make-up. The UPC has been backed into a corner. More and more people are seeing that there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing make-up. There’s no Scriptural basis for not wearing it, and there’s no logical reason for not wearing it. Now the UPC is forced to defend a doctrine that makes no sense, because if they back off this doctrine then it might cause their members to doubt other doctrines as well.

This is why I believe that the Bible should be the ultimate rule of authority. If I find that I’ve misunderstood something in the Bible then I have no problem changing my beliefs. I don’t claim to have a monopoly on Truth. I claim that Jesus is the only way to God, not any one Christian denomination!

Folks, God doesn’t care whether or not you wear make-up! If He cared then He would have put it in the Bible! If you are a woman who feels that God does not want you wearing make-up then that is between you and Him, but God never gave any organization the right to dictate a doctrine that has no Scriptural basis as being necessary for salvation!

HOLINESS

Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them: Ye shall be holy; for I the LORD your God am holy. 

IMITATION OF GOD (Imitatio Dei)

This commandment is given to the entire community.

God only commands something that we are capable of fulfilling. Failure comes in because we underestimate our abilities.

You do not have to separate yourself from society and go meditate in a forest to become holy. These mitzvot are not for angels. They are mainly interpersonal commandments, such as honoring parents, feeding the poor, not slandering, and not hating in our heart. Being a contributing part of society is a personal obligation. Everyone should aspire to elevate himself, and at the same time aspires to elevate the community. That's why the command to be holy, kedoshim t'hiyu – is written in the plural.

This commandment is given to the entire community. If your being holy enhances your connection to the community, then you are behaving correctly. But if it causes a separation between you and those around you, that is incorrect. Our actions  should always be gauged by what will bring the biggest Kiddush Hashem, sanctification of God’s Holy Name.

Performing altruistic acts without the expectation of reciprocity is one of the greatest godly-attributes. Most religions of the East and West are bogged down by the pre-occupation with what God is or isn’t. For certain, the more we attempt to paint a picture or imagine what He looks like, the more elusive will become the effort to find Him. Emphasizing deed over creed will prove more productive.

The doctrine of the imitation of God is related to the biblical account of the creation of man in the image of God, which acknowledges a resemblance between man and his Creator. Yet man is to imitate God, not impersonate Him (see Gen. 3:5). The main biblical sources for the injunction to imitate God are found in the command to be holy as God is holy and to walk in God's way (Lev. 19:2; Deut. 10:12, 11:22, 26:17).

Man is to be God-like in his actions, but he cannot aspire to be God. This distinguishes the biblical notion from the pagan attempts to achieve apotheosis or absorption in the deity.
Man is to imitate God in loving the stranger (Deut. 10:18–19); in resting on the Sabbath (Ex. 20:10–11); and in other ethical actions.

"Be like Him. Just as He is gracious and merciful, so be thou also gracious and merciful"
What is meant is that man ought to walk after [imitate] the attributes of God. Just as the Lord clothes the naked, so you shall clothe the naked. Just as He visits the sick, so you shall visit the sick. Just as the Lord comforted the bereaved, so you shall also comfort the bereaved; just as He buried the dead, so you shall bury the dead"
 
A person should not adhere to a standard of holiness that could have a negative effect on the community.  source:

References:

  1. United Pentecostal Church International, Position Paper on Modesty, Accessed 2006-12-21 20:02:31 []
Bloggers note: READ Scripture in context. Remember Kafe's (Peters) warning when reading Sha'ul's (Paul) letters!
2Pe 3:14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

1 First of all, then, I counsel that petitions, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all human beings, 2 including kings and all in positions of prominence; so that we may lead quiet and peaceful lives, being godly and upright in everything. 3 This is what God, our Deliverer, regards as good; this is what meets his approval. 4 He wants all humanity to be delivered and come to full knowledge of the truth. 5 For God is one;a and there is but one Mediator between God and humanity, Yeshua the Messiah, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom on behalf of all, thus providing testimony to God's purpose at just the right time. 7 This is why I myself was appointed a proclaimer, even an emissary - I am telling the truth, not lying! - a trustworthy and truthful teacher of the Goyim. 8 Therefore, it is my wish that when the men pray, no matter where, they should lift up hands that are holy - they should not become angry or get into arguments. 9Likewise, the women, when they pray, should be dressed modestly and sensibly in respectable attire, not with elaborate hairstyles and gold jewelry, or pearls, or expensive clothes. 10 Rather, they should adorn themselves with what is appropriate for women who claim to be worshipping God, namely, good deeds. 11 Let a woman learn in peace, fully submitted; 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Havah. 14 Also it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who, on being deceived, became involved in the transgression. 15 Nevertheless, the woman will be delivered through childbearing, provided that she continues trusting, loving and living a holy life with modesty. CJB
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; KJV
Since I began studying Judaism one point became clear, “When reading scripture, context is everything”. Context trumps false doctrines hands down.
When in doubt about a reading the B'rit Hadashah...”Shema” -“Hear oh Israel Adonai our God is Echad (One God)
Love HaShem fully and be a blessing to my neighbors by Loving them as myself.
aidōs has nothing to do with wearing make-up !
G127
αἰδώς
aidōs
ahee-doce'
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes); bashfulness, that is, (towards men), modesty or (towards God) awe: - reverence, shamefacedness.
shamefacednessG127
G127
αἰδώς
aidōs
Thayer Definition:
1) a sense of shame or honour, modesty, bashfulness, reverence, regard for others, respect
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes)
Citing in TDNT: 1:169, 26

Leaving Jesus Challenges All Christians and Messianics

James Woods author of the book "Leaving Jesus" has a challenge for Christians/Messianics. Bible students studying for bible quiz compititions may want to give this one a shot. BibleQuizzing

Read more at http://natzrim.blogspot.com/2013/09/leaving-jesus-challenges-all-christians.html#Fm7aXj76OtGvUQlW.99 


Tuesday, April 12, 2011

“All law was fullfilled in Christ”? REALLY...



Achem's (Occam's) razor?
All law was fulfilled in Christ”?
From facebook comments


[Names have been changed to protect anonymity ]
‎"When YahShua said "what you eat, doesn't make you unclean", was this him changing the Kosher Law?"


“The Messiah turned water into wine. Why?? Was it as a gift? Possibly, but the reason is deeper. Kefa had a vision of a sheet being lowered from Heaven with unclean animals in it and was told to slaughter and eat. Does this mean all animals are clean now? When YahShua said "what you eat, doesn't make you unclean”, was this him changing the Kosher Law?”
· Unlike · · 
  • Dale Christian Fellow all law was fullfilled in Christ
    7 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people
    @Dale I too believed the same for years, until I searched the scriptures and found Yahshua and Jesus are NOT the same: Yahshua said..."Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." Yahshua's words!

    "Biblical truth, Yahshua and Jesus are not the same people, Yahshua lived Torah and Jesus contradicted Moche and Torah in the Xtian Church" The Roman anti-semtic gov/church twist scripture to their own destruction. Search the roots of your faith in ALL the scripture and you'll see too...[we] have inherited lies and falsehoods. Shabbat Shalom
    6 hours ago · Like
  • Dale a Christian Fellow
    sorry Yechezkel, but wrong....I'm not gonna get into a legalism discussion with you. Christ came and fulfilled all the O.T. law, there were way to many of them for anyone to safely say "they didn't commit sin"...Through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, all law was fulfilled, so that we, as Christians, have a simple way to God. Through the cross by Christ's shed blood..period. easy. not hard, not complicated, like man likes to always make things...otherwise, Jesus died for nothing...Would you rather try do obey ALL the law man's way, or believe that Christ came and died for your sins, and ALL the sins of mankind, past, present,    and future...in mathm, there's a principle, called Achem's (Occam's) razor, which states that the The simplest expression of scientific truth; where 2 theories exist to explain a similar phenomenon, the one making the fewest assumptions should prevail—i.e., it should be no more complicated than necessary...
    5 hours ago · Like
  • Brother # 1
    Fulfilled? Based on what. Is that found in the Book of Opinions?
    Well, why don't we see what He said, shall we?

    Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the Prophets. I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt 5:17

    Uhhh, the word "fulfill" was translated from the Greek word "Pleroo". The definition of pleroo is "to confirm something. Look it up.

    If you think he nailed the Torah to the cross, then you have to say that he contradicted Himself in the next two verses when He clearly said that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until the heavens and the earth pass away. And that whoever teaches to break even the least of the commands will be called the least.

    Clue: The heavens and the earth are still here.

    Okay, there's one opinion for Achem's Razor. Let's look at the scriptures for a second one before we choose, shall we?

    Let's see what ADONAI says. His opinion should probably count since He authored the Torah that Moses scribed.

    Deuteronomy 12:32
    What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Does HE mean what HE said?

    ...Deuteronomy 4:2
    Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of ADONAI your EL which I command you.

    HE said it again! Is HE serious? HE really just said not to diminish from HIS Commands? Hmmmm......

    Maybe HE will change HIS mind? Let's see......

    Malachi 3:6
    For I am ADONAI, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Well, I guess HE means forever when HE says forever. I'm convinced!

    Well, we can't use Achem's Razor. We have 2 opinions from The Father and The Son, but they are of the same opinion. Let's find two more.....

    1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    1 John 2

    3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.

    That didn't work. Peter and John also agree. I guess maybe we should take their word for it? Four opinions from ADONAI, Messiah and two chief Apostles all say the same thing. The Torah stands.

    Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

    The message is consistent throughout the Tanakh, AND the Witness Writings (NT)......Keep HIS Commands. All it takes is humbleness to gain eyes to see.
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1
    Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

    "Every (kol — the entire) Word (‘imrah — saying, communication, utterance, instruction, command, and promise) of God (‘elowah) is pure,    tested, and true (tsaraph — refined, precious, flawless, and worthy), a shield for (magen — an enclosure which surrounds, defends, and saves) those who put their trust in (chacah — those who take refuge in, who seek safety, salvation, protection, and rest through reliance upon) Him." (Proverbs 30:5)

    HE says: "Listen carefully to Me. Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen so that you may live, and so that I will be able to establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you."Yashayahu / Isaiah 55:3)

    " establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you".......everlasting means forever.

    If ignorance of ADONAI’s Way was acceptable, ADONAI would not have revealed: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priests for Me; because you have forgotten the Torah of your EL, I also will forget your children." (Hosea 4:6)

    Deuteronomy 11:1
    Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.

    Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (Pleroo) CONFIRM.

    1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    Isaiah 48:18
    O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

    Psalm 81:13
    Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!

    Psalm 78:7
    That they might set their hope in ADONAI, and not forget the works of ADONAI, but keep his commandments:

    Deuteronomy 11:1
    Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.

    Deuteronomy 5:33
    Ye shall walk in all the ways which ADONAI your Elohim hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

    Deuteronomy 4:40
    Thou shalt keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which ADONAI thy Elohim giveth thee, for ever.

    Deuteronomy 5:29
    O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

    1 John 2

    3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.

    Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

    Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandme
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Dale a Christian Fellow and again, I say, the commandments are found all over in the NT as well. all OT was fulfilled....but, you do your legalism thing all you want, if you don't have Christ, you know where you're going...period. now, continue arguing all you want. i did my part. told the truth. "and the truth shall set you free." Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the father but by me."
    2 hours ago · Like
  • Brother #1
    Let's see......

    He gave us His word, so we have a measuring stick to gauge right from wrong, clean from unclean, what He wants from us, and what He considers an abomination.

    Messiah said:

    "And behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to give to every one according to his work." Revelation 22:12

    What are these "works"? Oh, yeah, works of the "Law"!!!

    Hmmm, Messiah is going to judge our works??? But, if the law was nailed to the cross, He can't have a way to judge our works. Guess He was lying to us. No chance of that, is there?
  • Brother #1
    It is so obvious, yet most don't see it. NO OTHER group fits the description in the following verses....just christians.

    The verses say:
    22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,    ye that work iniquity.

    First, we should notice that He doesn't refute their claims. Why? They told the truth. They did all of things in the name of "lord jesus christ." Now consider this:

    Will the Jews claim they did good things in His name? NO!
    Nor do they call Him Lord.

    Will the muslims claim they did good things in His name? NO!
    They don't call Him Lord, either.

    Hindus? NO!
    Buddhists? NO!
    Atheists? NO!
    In fact, there is ONLY ONE SINGLE GROUP on the planet that can make that claim. They call Him Lord, and prophesy, and cast out demons, and do works IN HIS NAME.
    IT'S THE CHRISTIANS!!!!

    This is a clear warning to the christians. HE said He will send them away for their "anomia" (negation of the law) [Torah].

    Sadly, they have been so indoctrinated (deceived) into believing they are "In like Flynn" for simply believing, that they seemingly don't bother    to read what He is warning them of here. Either that, or they just plain don't have eyes to see.

    If you take Paulos' confusion out of the equation, anyone that actually studies the Scriptures can easily see the theme mentioned HUNDREDS OF TIMES in both the Tanakh, and the NT....KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE. REJECT THE TRUTH, AND HEAR THE WORDS "DEPART FROM ME".

    Sadly, the masses of christians accept the work done on the Upright Pole, yet they categorically reject the teachings of the Upright One, which was Torah. HE said that man would not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the Father. He told us to keep the Father's Commands. The fourth Commandment was the only one that ADONAI specifically told us to remember, and they reject it! He said it would be a sign between HIM and us for ALL GENERATIONS. That means forever! It's the mark that shows we are HIS Family. Here's more proof of it:

    "Children from foreign nations who form a relationship with ADONAI, serving Him and loving Yahuwah’s personal and proper name , who carefully observe and revere the Sabbath and do not treat it with contempt , those who are passionate about and are empowered by My Familial Covenant Relationship , these I will bring to My set-apart mountain , rejoicing in My home and tabernacle of prayer . Their offerings will rise up and be accepted, because My household shall be called a house of intercession for all people" (Yashayahu / Isaiah 56:6-7)

    It is heartbreaking to witness the needless destruction.

    Hosea 4:6
    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law (Torah) of thy EL, I will also forget thy children.

    Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.

    Come out of her my people, lest ye suffer her plagues.

    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1 But according to John, the Messiah is the living embodiment of the Torah. So when He said that no man comes to the Father but through me, doesn't that mean that no man comes to the Father except through Torah?
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1
    Do you believe the prophets? They said the Feasts, Passover, sukkot, etc, will still be practiced in the millennial Kingdom. Wow! So let me get this straight, everything was practiced before the Messiah. The Messiah spent His entire life, and career teaching Torah because He was going to nail it to the cross? Then we get a break in that action between the crucifixion and His second coming, but then go back to keeping the Torah once He returns? Brilliant!
    How about some verses that say it was nailed to the cross? And some verses that say "don't keep my Fathers feasts or Sabbaths anymore?

    Clue: They don't exist.

    Jeremiah 16:19
    O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1
    And the truth shall set you free????

    Gee, did you forget something? In context might help. You left off the way to get that truth, didn't you?

    It is conditional. It's an IF-Then contract.

    John 8:31-32 (King James Version)

    31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,[ If ] ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    32And (THEN) ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    IF you continue in My word. What Word did He teach? Torah!
    See it?
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1
    Sop it boils down to Dale's opinion vs Scripture. I think I'll go with Messiah's words rather than Dale's opinion that has no scriptural basis. Thanks anyway, Dale. But as for me and my house, we shall serve ADONAI. HalleluYAH!

    Jeremiah 16:19
    O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1
    Here's why I bothered:

    Ezekiel 3:17-21 (King James Version)

    17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

    18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

    19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

    20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

    21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
    2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
  • Brother #1 If you believe the Messiah at His Word, then you better pay attention to Matt 5:19. He warned all of us. Selah.
  • Brother #2According to Matthew until the universe is remade the Torah   stands!
  • Brother #2Yahowah never established any religion much less authorized a book named after a sun goddess ( biblia) . The very concept of NT came from Marcion the son of a bishop that declared "the   Jewish god dead' threww his scripture aside calling it out of vogue or "Old Testament" . He then loaded up his new cannon with Sha'uwl's letters and called it "New Testament . Yahowah never invented any religion we is restoring a covenant that He established with Abraham .
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 2 people
  • Brother #2In not as much as one verse does Yahowah support any religious institution nor the clerics that live off of them !
  • Brother #1
    Matthew 4:4
    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI.

    Last time I checked, the Torah and the prophets are words that proceeded out of the mouth of ADONAI.

    Maybe Matthew recorded it all wrong? Maybe Dale can show us the verse that quotes the Messiah saying "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI, except for the entire Torah, that is. It's all dead now, except for 9 out of the 10 Commandments. The rest is trash, and I wasted my whole life and my whole ministry teaching this stuff."
    "Oh, and by the way, don't pay any attention to Revelation, cause I'm gonna lie and say that everyone will be judged by the Word. Just ignore all of that nonsense, okay?"

    Show me those verses, Dale. Thanks!
  • Brother #2 It's as though men corrupted the very letters that they used in order to invent a new religion based on the "life and times of the Messiah " !!~
  • Brother #1 The oldest copies we have were pretty much all written after the apostles were dead, so they are all scribed by other people which signed the apostles names to them. I'm not saying they weren't mostly accurate copies of something older that didn't survive, but Look at 2 Peter. I mean, he spelled his own name wrong in the first verse. Of course he got it right later in the letter, but gee whiz, isn't that a red flag of sorts?
  • Brother #2 It was Marcion that had his prolific copy editors flood the market with Paul's letters just before he decided what would go into his new book and thus be the foundation for his new religion .
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 2 people
  • Yechezkel Amein my brothers! "How about some verses that say it was nailed to the cross? And some verses that say "don't keep my Fathers feasts or Sabbaths anymore?""Clue: They don't exist."

    Jeremiah 16:19
    O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. Priceless Cary ;)
    16 minutes ago · Like
  • Yechezkel 2 Kephas (peter)15 And think of our Lord's patience as deliverance, just as our dear brother Sha'ul also wrote you, following the wisdom God gave him. 16 Indeed, he speaks about these things in all   his letters. They contain some things that are hard to understand, things which the uninstructed and unstable distort, to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

    Cor 8 Watch out, so that no one will take you captive by means of philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which accords with the elemental spirits of the world but does not accord with the Messiah.

    Philosophy: "In math, there's a principle, called Achem's (Occam's) razor, which states that the The simplest expression of scientific truth; where 2 theories exist to explain a similar phenomenon, the one making the fewest assumptions should prevail—i.e., it should be no more complicated than necessary."

    "If a prophet or someone who gets messages while dreaming arises among you and he gives you a sign or wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder comes about as he predicted when he said, 'Let's follow other gods, which you have not known; and let us serve them,' 3 you are not to listen to what that prophet or dreamer says. For ADONAI your God is testing you, in order to find out whether you really do love ADONAI your God with all your heart and being. 4 You are to follow ADONAI your God, fear him, obey his mitzvot, listen to what he says, serve him and cling to him; 5 and that prophet or dreamer is to be put to death; because he urged rebellion against ADONAI your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from a life of slavery; in order to seduce you away from the path ADONAI your God ordered you to follow. This is how you are to rid your community of this wickedness.

    Deu 13:1 “When there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he shall give you a sign or a wonder,
    Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder shall come true, of which he has spoken to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other mighty ones – which you have not known – and serve them,’
    Deu 13:3 do not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for
    יהוה your Elohim is trying you to know whether you love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
    Deu 13:4 “Walk after 
    יהוה your Elohim and fear Him, and guard His commands and obey His voice, and serve Him and cling to Him.
    Deu 13:5 “And that prophet or that dreamer of dreams is put to death, because he has spoken apostasy against 
    יהוה your Elohim – who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim and redeemed you from the house of bondage – to make you stray from the way in which יהוה your Elohim commanded you to walk. Thus you shall purge the evil from your midst.

    Deu 13:1 (13:2) 
    כי־יקום בקרבך נביא או חלם חלום ונתן אליך אות או מופת׃ 
    Deu 13:2 (13:3) 
    ובא האות והמופת אשׁר־דבר אליך לאמר נלכה אחרי אלהים אחרים אשׁר לא־ידעתם ונעבדם׃ 
    Deu 13:3 (13:4) 
    לא תשׁמע אל־דברי הנביא ההוא או אל־חולם החלום ההוא כי מנסה יהוה אלהיכם אתכם לדעת הישׁכם אהבים את־יהוה אלהיכם בכל־לבבכם ובכל־נפשׁכם׃ 
    Deu 13:4 (13:5) 
    אחרי יהוה אלהיכם תלכו ואתו תיראו ואת־מצותיו תשׁמרו ובקלו תשׁמעו ואתו תעבדו ובו תדבקון׃ 
    והנביא ההוא או חלם החלום ההוא יומת כי Deu 13:5 (13:6) (I don't think the hebrew copies well :/ ) However, it's the same for the past 3324 years!
  • Yechezkel If we don't obey ADONAI, then we are catering to Satan. There is no in between; no "tolerance" which seems to be today's buzzword...."
    ADONAI gave us His Torah to keep us safe and on His path as long as we are "inside the fence" of Torah and playing by the rules.

    Proverbs 16:25: There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    "Torah has given us tremendous freedom - Freedom to know our Creator and His awesome Messiah through whom we are able to gain eternal life merely by "believing" in Him, and allowing the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit) to help us change from the inside-out to become the "new creatures" we were always meant to be."
  • 13 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person

Jeannie Xtian Christ DID fulfill the law--He did not break one commandment--the law was to show us how sinful we are-we all say 'little white lies'- we all have broken one of the commandments-to -break one is like breaking them all-God does not hold one command higher then another--the thief on the cross did nothing to deserve Grace-but the Lord told him that that very same day he would be in paradise (heaven)-
12 hours ago · Like

Brother #1 The thief on the cross did nothing to deserve Grace? Is that an opinion? Does your bible say he didn't keep the sabbaths? NO! You are only assuming. Your bible says he rebuked the other thief for mocking Messiah. It says he feared "God". It says he claimed he deserved punishment....sounds like repentance to me. He did nothing to deserve grace? Your opinion is not in the scriptures. Shalom.
12 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Jeannie Xtian the law was to show us that we need a Savior-we can't do it on our own--He paid the price and all He asks is faith--like the o.t. people like david.samuel etc--they are saved by their faith ion the promise of the Messiah-not by what they do--and how do you explain the harlot rahab??she is in Jesus' line-she is saved by faith-not by lae
12 hours ago · Like

Jan Wordly kosher law - manmade
10 hours ago · Like · 1 person

Brother #2 The only law that Yahoshu'ah knocked was the Oral Law of the religious class. He never accepted a religion and didn't replace rabbinic Judaism with yet another religion of Christianity :)
10 hours ago · Like · 1 person

Brother #2 Yahowah established an "everlasting" Covenant with Abraham that he is currently restoring visa vi the Mowed Miqra. He fulfilled the first 4 spring Miqra and will fulfill the last three fall miqra'ey designed to coincide with the fall of man ...
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2 He acted as the passover lamb , decended intpo Sheol for unleavened bread , rose for First Fruits and 50 days later the Qodesh Ruach decended on the followers of theway at the Miqra if Shabua or as you know it in Greek Pentacost or 50 .
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2 IOf the Torah was done away with why were the followers meeting on the Miqra od Shabu'a ?
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2‎ ????? Why did Constantine change the Shabbat to Sunday under penalty of death 300 years later ?
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2 The Kosher law was man made it was and is part of the oral law of rabbinic Judaism .
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2 Faith never saved anyone and that is a pagan idea besides the very word faith comes from the Roman goddess of loyalty . Knowledge trumps faith in the unknown .
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Jan Worldly is this really relative to what is going on in reality right now... while all of you are, once again, dissecting what has been/will be until eternity our country is in HELL.. our economy is about to collapse, etc... what a distraction...
10 hours ago · Like

Brother #2 The word is a distraction ? Exposing political and religious lies is what I do all day .That is the Family business.
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Jan Worldly no all yhis DISCUSSION is a distraction... PAY ATTENTION to what's going on around you
10 hours ago · Like

Brother #2 What is bringing this country to it's knees are the religious and political lies . Jan you better check out what is happening . Islam and the left are one force now .
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #1 Whats going on around you is the distraction. It fills your mind with this world, thus not leaving time to notice what is important. ADONAI and His Word. The world will devolve exactly as written. No one can change that. It will be destroyed by the hands of men, then rebuilt by the word of HaShem. The Word is the distraction?
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

William No. He was not changing any law. No law was changed or annulled by the appearance of The Messiah. Not a jot or a tittle.
9 hours ago · Unlike · 3 people

Brother #1 William has eyes to see. The Family is standing up and being separated. HalleluYah!
9 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #2 William that is only if you believe the word ....
9 hours ago · Like

William What is 'the word'? Are we talking The Word, as in Scripture?
9 hours ago · Unlike · 3 people

Brother #2 I was ribbing you :) Of course the Word over tradition !!
9 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people

Brother #1 Shabbat Shalom, Family!
9 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person

Brother #2 Have a great Shabbos Brother #1!!