Achem's (Occam's) razor?
“All
law was fulfilled in Christ”?
From facebook comments
[Names have been changed to protect anonymity ]
"When YahShua said "what you eat, doesn't make you unclean", was this him changing the Kosher Law?"
“The Messiah turned water into wine. Why?? Was it as a gift? Possibly, but the reason is deeper. Kefa had a vision of a sheet being lowered from Heaven with unclean animals in it and was told to slaughter and eat. Does this mean all animals are clean now? When YahShua said "what you eat, doesn't make you unclean”, was this him changing the Kosher Law?”
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- Dale Christian Fellow all law was fullfilled in Christ7 hours ago · Unlike · 2 people
@Dale
I too believed the same for years, until I searched the scriptures
and found Yahshua and Jesus are NOT the same: Yahshua
said..."Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or
the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes
indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so
much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until
everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys
the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be
called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them
and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
Yahshua's words!
"Biblical truth, Yahshua and Jesus are not the same people, Yahshua lived Torah and Jesus contradicted Moche and Torah in the Xtian Church" The Roman anti-semtic gov/church twist scripture to their own destruction. Search the roots of your faith in ALL the scripture and you'll see too...[we] have inherited lies and falsehoods. Shabbat Shalom
"Biblical truth, Yahshua and Jesus are not the same people, Yahshua lived Torah and Jesus contradicted Moche and Torah in the Xtian Church" The Roman anti-semtic gov/church twist scripture to their own destruction. Search the roots of your faith in ALL the scripture and you'll see too...[we] have inherited lies and falsehoods. Shabbat Shalom
- Dale a Christian Fellow
6 hours ago ·
Like
sorry
Yechezkel, but wrong....I'm not gonna get into a legalism
discussion with you. Christ came and fulfilled all the O.T. law,
there were way to many of them for anyone to safely say "they
didn't commit sin"...Through Christ's sacrifice on the cross,
all law was fulfilled, so that we, as Christians, have a simple
way to God. Through the cross by Christ's shed blood..period.
easy. not hard, not complicated, like man likes to always make
things...otherwise, Jesus died for nothing...Would you rather try
do obey ALL the law man's way, or believe that Christ came and
died for your sins, and ALL the sins of mankind, past, present,
and future...in mathm, there's a principle, called Achem's
(Occam's) razor, which states that the The simplest expression of
scientific truth; where 2 theories exist to explain a similar
phenomenon, the one making the fewest assumptions should
prevail—i.e., it should be no more complicated than necessary...
- Brother # 1
5 hours ago ·
Like
Fulfilled?
Based on what. Is that found in the Book of Opinions?
Well, why don't we see what He said, shall we?
Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the Prophets. I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt 5:17
Uhhh, the word "fulfill" was translated from the Greek word "Pleroo". The definition of pleroo is "to confirm something. Look it up.
If you think he nailed the Torah to the cross, then you have to say that he contradicted Himself in the next two verses when He clearly said that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until the heavens and the earth pass away. And that whoever teaches to break even the least of the commands will be called the least.
Clue: The heavens and the earth are still here.
Okay, there's one opinion for Achem's Razor. Let's look at the scriptures for a second one before we choose, shall we?
Let's see what ADONAI says. His opinion should probably count since He authored the Torah that Moses scribed.
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Does HE mean what HE said?
...Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of ADONAI your EL which I command you.
HE said it again! Is HE serious? HE really just said not to diminish from HIS Commands? Hmmmm......
Maybe HE will change HIS mind? Let's see......
Malachi 3:6
For I am ADONAI, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Well, I guess HE means forever when HE says forever. I'm convinced!
Well, we can't use Achem's Razor. We have 2 opinions from The Father and The Son, but they are of the same opinion. Let's find two more.....
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 John 2
3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.
That didn't work. Peter and John also agree. I guess maybe we should take their word for it? Four opinions from ADONAI, Messiah and two chief Apostles all say the same thing. The Torah stands.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
The message is consistent throughout the Tanakh, AND the Witness Writings (NT)......Keep HIS Commands. All it takes is humbleness to gain eyes to see.
Well, why don't we see what He said, shall we?
Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the Prophets. I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt 5:17
Uhhh, the word "fulfill" was translated from the Greek word "Pleroo". The definition of pleroo is "to confirm something. Look it up.
If you think he nailed the Torah to the cross, then you have to say that he contradicted Himself in the next two verses when He clearly said that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until the heavens and the earth pass away. And that whoever teaches to break even the least of the commands will be called the least.
Clue: The heavens and the earth are still here.
Okay, there's one opinion for Achem's Razor. Let's look at the scriptures for a second one before we choose, shall we?
Let's see what ADONAI says. His opinion should probably count since He authored the Torah that Moses scribed.
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Does HE mean what HE said?
...Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of ADONAI your EL which I command you.
HE said it again! Is HE serious? HE really just said not to diminish from HIS Commands? Hmmmm......
Maybe HE will change HIS mind? Let's see......
Malachi 3:6
For I am ADONAI, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Well, I guess HE means forever when HE says forever. I'm convinced!
Well, we can't use Achem's Razor. We have 2 opinions from The Father and The Son, but they are of the same opinion. Let's find two more.....
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 John 2
3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.
That didn't work. Peter and John also agree. I guess maybe we should take their word for it? Four opinions from ADONAI, Messiah and two chief Apostles all say the same thing. The Torah stands.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
The message is consistent throughout the Tanakh, AND the Witness Writings (NT)......Keep HIS Commands. All it takes is humbleness to gain eyes to see.
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer
shall be abomination.
"Every (kol — the entire) Word (‘imrah — saying, communication, utterance, instruction, command, and promise) of God (‘elowah) is pure, tested, and true (tsaraph — refined, precious, flawless, and worthy), a shield for (magen — an enclosure which surrounds, defends, and saves) those who put their trust in (chacah — those who take refuge in, who seek safety, salvation, protection, and rest through reliance upon) Him." (Proverbs 30:5)
HE says: "Listen carefully to Me. Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen so that you may live, and so that I will be able to establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you."Yashayahu / Isaiah 55:3)
" establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you".......everlasting means forever.
If ignorance of ADONAI’s Way was acceptable, ADONAI would not have revealed: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priests for Me; because you have forgotten the Torah of your EL, I also will forget your children." (Hosea 4:6)
Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (Pleroo) CONFIRM.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Isaiah 48:18
O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
Psalm 81:13
Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psalm 78:7
That they might set their hope in ADONAI, and not forget the works of ADONAI, but keep his commandments:
Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.
Deuteronomy 5:33
Ye shall walk in all the ways which ADONAI your Elohim hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.
Deuteronomy 4:40
Thou shalt keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which ADONAI thy Elohim giveth thee, for ever.
Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
1 John 2
3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandme
"Every (kol — the entire) Word (‘imrah — saying, communication, utterance, instruction, command, and promise) of God (‘elowah) is pure, tested, and true (tsaraph — refined, precious, flawless, and worthy), a shield for (magen — an enclosure which surrounds, defends, and saves) those who put their trust in (chacah — those who take refuge in, who seek safety, salvation, protection, and rest through reliance upon) Him." (Proverbs 30:5)
HE says: "Listen carefully to Me. Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen so that you may live, and so that I will be able to establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you."Yashayahu / Isaiah 55:3)
" establish an everlasting Covenant Relationship with you".......everlasting means forever.
If ignorance of ADONAI’s Way was acceptable, ADONAI would not have revealed: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priests for Me; because you have forgotten the Torah of your EL, I also will forget your children." (Hosea 4:6)
Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (Pleroo) CONFIRM.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of ADONAI endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Isaiah 48:18
O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
Psalm 81:13
Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psalm 78:7
That they might set their hope in ADONAI, and not forget the works of ADONAI, but keep his commandments:
Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love ADONAI thy Elohim, and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, always.
Deuteronomy 5:33
Ye shall walk in all the ways which ADONAI your Elohim hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.
Deuteronomy 4:40
Thou shalt keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which ADONAI thy Elohim giveth thee, for ever.
Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
1 John 2
3And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandme
- Dale a Christian Fellow and again, I say, the commandments are found all over in the NT as well. all OT was fulfilled....but, you do your legalism thing all you want, if you don't have Christ, you know where you're going...period. now, continue arguing all you want. i did my part. told the truth. "and the truth shall set you free." Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the father but by me."2 hours ago · Like
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Let's
see......
He gave us His word, so we have a measuring stick to gauge right from wrong, clean from unclean, what He wants from us, and what He considers an abomination.
Messiah said:
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to give to every one according to his work." Revelation 22:12
What are these "works"? Oh, yeah, works of the "Law"!!!
Hmmm, Messiah is going to judge our works??? But, if the law was nailed to the cross, He can't have a way to judge our works. Guess He was lying to us. No chance of that, is there?
He gave us His word, so we have a measuring stick to gauge right from wrong, clean from unclean, what He wants from us, and what He considers an abomination.
Messiah said:
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to give to every one according to his work." Revelation 22:12
What are these "works"? Oh, yeah, works of the "Law"!!!
Hmmm, Messiah is going to judge our works??? But, if the law was nailed to the cross, He can't have a way to judge our works. Guess He was lying to us. No chance of that, is there?
- Brother #1
It is so
obvious, yet most don't see it. NO OTHER group fits the
description in the following verses....just christians.
The verses say:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
First, we should notice that He doesn't refute their claims. Why? They told the truth. They did all of things in the name of "lord jesus christ." Now consider this:
Will the Jews claim they did good things in His name? NO!
Nor do they call Him Lord.
Will the muslims claim they did good things in His name? NO!
They don't call Him Lord, either.
Hindus? NO!
Buddhists? NO!
Atheists? NO!
In fact, there is ONLY ONE SINGLE GROUP on the planet that can make that claim. They call Him Lord, and prophesy, and cast out demons, and do works IN HIS NAME.
IT'S THE CHRISTIANS!!!!
This is a clear warning to the christians. HE said He will send them away for their "anomia" (negation of the law) [Torah].
Sadly, they have been so indoctrinated (deceived) into believing they are "In like Flynn" for simply believing, that they seemingly don't bother to read what He is warning them of here. Either that, or they just plain don't have eyes to see.
If you take Paulos' confusion out of the equation, anyone that actually studies the Scriptures can easily see the theme mentioned HUNDREDS OF TIMES in both the Tanakh, and the NT....KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE. REJECT THE TRUTH, AND HEAR THE WORDS "DEPART FROM ME".
Sadly, the masses of christians accept the work done on the Upright Pole, yet they categorically reject the teachings of the Upright One, which was Torah. HE said that man would not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the Father. He told us to keep the Father's Commands. The fourth Commandment was the only one that ADONAI specifically told us to remember, and they reject it! He said it would be a sign between HIM and us for ALL GENERATIONS. That means forever! It's the mark that shows we are HIS Family. Here's more proof of it:
"Children from foreign nations who form a relationship with ADONAI, serving Him and loving Yahuwah’s personal and proper name , who carefully observe and revere the Sabbath and do not treat it with contempt , those who are passionate about and are empowered by My Familial Covenant Relationship , these I will bring to My set-apart mountain , rejoicing in My home and tabernacle of prayer . Their offerings will rise up and be accepted, because My household shall be called a house of intercession for all people" (Yashayahu / Isaiah 56:6-7)
It is heartbreaking to witness the needless destruction.
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law (Torah) of thy EL, I will also forget thy children.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.
Come out of her my people, lest ye suffer her plagues.
The verses say:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
First, we should notice that He doesn't refute their claims. Why? They told the truth. They did all of things in the name of "lord jesus christ." Now consider this:
Will the Jews claim they did good things in His name? NO!
Nor do they call Him Lord.
Will the muslims claim they did good things in His name? NO!
They don't call Him Lord, either.
Hindus? NO!
Buddhists? NO!
Atheists? NO!
In fact, there is ONLY ONE SINGLE GROUP on the planet that can make that claim. They call Him Lord, and prophesy, and cast out demons, and do works IN HIS NAME.
IT'S THE CHRISTIANS!!!!
This is a clear warning to the christians. HE said He will send them away for their "anomia" (negation of the law) [Torah].
Sadly, they have been so indoctrinated (deceived) into believing they are "In like Flynn" for simply believing, that they seemingly don't bother to read what He is warning them of here. Either that, or they just plain don't have eyes to see.
If you take Paulos' confusion out of the equation, anyone that actually studies the Scriptures can easily see the theme mentioned HUNDREDS OF TIMES in both the Tanakh, and the NT....KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE. REJECT THE TRUTH, AND HEAR THE WORDS "DEPART FROM ME".
Sadly, the masses of christians accept the work done on the Upright Pole, yet they categorically reject the teachings of the Upright One, which was Torah. HE said that man would not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the Father. He told us to keep the Father's Commands. The fourth Commandment was the only one that ADONAI specifically told us to remember, and they reject it! He said it would be a sign between HIM and us for ALL GENERATIONS. That means forever! It's the mark that shows we are HIS Family. Here's more proof of it:
"Children from foreign nations who form a relationship with ADONAI, serving Him and loving Yahuwah’s personal and proper name , who carefully observe and revere the Sabbath and do not treat it with contempt , those who are passionate about and are empowered by My Familial Covenant Relationship , these I will bring to My set-apart mountain , rejoicing in My home and tabernacle of prayer . Their offerings will rise up and be accepted, because My household shall be called a house of intercession for all people" (Yashayahu / Isaiah 56:6-7)
It is heartbreaking to witness the needless destruction.
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law (Torah) of thy EL, I will also forget thy children.
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.
Come out of her my people, lest ye suffer her plagues.
- Brother #1 But according to John, the Messiah is the living embodiment of the Torah. So when He said that no man comes to the Father but through me, doesn't that mean that no man comes to the Father except through Torah?2 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Do you believe
the prophets? They said the Feasts, Passover, sukkot, etc, will
still be practiced in the millennial Kingdom. Wow! So let me get
this straight, everything was practiced before the Messiah. The
Messiah spent His entire life, and career teaching Torah because
He was going to nail it to the cross? Then we get a break in that
action between the crucifixion and His second coming, but then go
back to keeping the Torah once He returns? Brilliant!
How about some verses that say it was nailed to the cross? And some verses that say "don't keep my Fathers feasts or Sabbaths anymore?
Clue: They don't exist.
Jeremiah 16:19
O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
How about some verses that say it was nailed to the cross? And some verses that say "don't keep my Fathers feasts or Sabbaths anymore?
Clue: They don't exist.
Jeremiah 16:19
O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
And the truth
shall set you free????
Gee, did you forget something? In context might help. You left off the way to get that truth, didn't you?
It is conditional. It's an IF-Then contract.
John 8:31-32 (King James Version)
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,[ If ] ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And (THEN) ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
IF you continue in My word. What Word did He teach? Torah!
See it?
Gee, did you forget something? In context might help. You left off the way to get that truth, didn't you?
It is conditional. It's an IF-Then contract.
John 8:31-32 (King James Version)
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,[ If ] ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And (THEN) ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
IF you continue in My word. What Word did He teach? Torah!
See it?
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Sop it boils
down to Dale's opinion vs Scripture. I think I'll go with
Messiah's words rather than Dale's opinion that has no scriptural
basis. Thanks anyway, Dale. But as for me and my house, we shall
serve ADONAI. HalleluYAH!
Jeremiah 16:19
O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Jeremiah 16:19
O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Here's why I
bothered:
Ezekiel 3:17-21 (King James Version)
17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezekiel 3:17-21 (King James Version)
17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
- Brother #1 If you believe the Messiah at His Word, then you better pay attention to Matt 5:19. He warned all of us. Selah.
- Brother #2According to Matthew until the universe is remade the Torah stands!
- Brother #2Yahowah never established any religion much less authorized a book named after a sun goddess ( biblia) . The very concept of NT came from Marcion the son of a bishop that declared "the Jewish god dead' threww his scripture aside calling it out of vogue or "Old Testament" . He then loaded up his new cannon with Sha'uwl's letters and called it "New Testament . Yahowah never invented any religion we is restoring a covenant that He established with Abraham .about an hour ago · Unlike · 2 people
- Brother #2In not as much as one verse does Yahowah support any religious institution nor the clerics that live off of them !
- Brother #1
2 hours ago ·
Unlike · 1 person
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI.
Last time I checked, the Torah and the prophets are words that proceeded out of the mouth of ADONAI.
Maybe Matthew recorded it all wrong? Maybe Dale can show us the verse that quotes the Messiah saying "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI, except for the entire Torah, that is. It's all dead now, except for 9 out of the 10 Commandments. The rest is trash, and I wasted my whole life and my whole ministry teaching this stuff."
"Oh, and by the way, don't pay any attention to Revelation, cause I'm gonna lie and say that everyone will be judged by the Word. Just ignore all of that nonsense, okay?"
Show me those verses, Dale. Thanks!
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI.
Last time I checked, the Torah and the prophets are words that proceeded out of the mouth of ADONAI.
Maybe Matthew recorded it all wrong? Maybe Dale can show us the verse that quotes the Messiah saying "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ADONAI, except for the entire Torah, that is. It's all dead now, except for 9 out of the 10 Commandments. The rest is trash, and I wasted my whole life and my whole ministry teaching this stuff."
"Oh, and by the way, don't pay any attention to Revelation, cause I'm gonna lie and say that everyone will be judged by the Word. Just ignore all of that nonsense, okay?"
Show me those verses, Dale. Thanks!
- Brother #2 It's as though men corrupted the very letters that they used in order to invent a new religion based on the "life and times of the Messiah " !!~
- Brother #1 The oldest copies we have were pretty much all written after the apostles were dead, so they are all scribed by other people which signed the apostles names to them. I'm not saying they weren't mostly accurate copies of something older that didn't survive, but Look at 2 Peter. I mean, he spelled his own name wrong in the first verse. Of course he got it right later in the letter, but gee whiz, isn't that a red flag of sorts?
- Brother #2 It was Marcion that had his prolific copy editors flood the market with Paul's letters just before he decided what would go into his new book and thus be the foundation for his new religion .about an hour ago · Unlike · 2 people
- Yechezkel Amein my brothers! "How about some verses that say it was nailed to the cross? And some verses that say "don't keep my Fathers feasts or Sabbaths anymore?""Clue: They don't exist."
Jeremiah 16:19
O ADONAI, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. Priceless Cary ;)16 minutes ago · Like - Yechezkel 2 Kephas (peter)15 And think of our Lord's patience as deliverance, just as our dear brother Sha'ul also wrote you, following the wisdom God gave him. 16 Indeed, he speaks about these things in all his letters. They contain some things that are hard to understand, things which the uninstructed and unstable distort, to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Cor 8 Watch out, so that no one will take you captive by means of philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which accords with the elemental spirits of the world but does not accord with the Messiah.
Philosophy: "In math, there's a principle, called Achem's (Occam's) razor, which states that the The simplest expression of scientific truth; where 2 theories exist to explain a similar phenomenon, the one making the fewest assumptions should prevail—i.e., it should be no more complicated than necessary."
"If a prophet or someone who gets messages while dreaming arises among you and he gives you a sign or wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder comes about as he predicted when he said, 'Let's follow other gods, which you have not known; and let us serve them,' 3 you are not to listen to what that prophet or dreamer says. For ADONAI your God is testing you, in order to find out whether you really do love ADONAI your God with all your heart and being. 4 You are to follow ADONAI your God, fear him, obey his mitzvot, listen to what he says, serve him and cling to him; 5 and that prophet or dreamer is to be put to death; because he urged rebellion against ADONAI your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from a life of slavery; in order to seduce you away from the path ADONAI your God ordered you to follow. This is how you are to rid your community of this wickedness.
Deu 13:1 “When there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he shall give you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder shall come true, of which he has spoken to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other mighty ones – which you have not known – and serve them,’
Deu 13:3 do not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, forיהוה your Elohim is trying you to know whether you love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
Deu 13:4 “Walk after יהוה your Elohim and fear Him, and guard His commands and obey His voice, and serve Him and cling to Him.
Deu 13:5 “And that prophet or that dreamer of dreams is put to death, because he has spoken apostasy against יהוה your Elohim – who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim and redeemed you from the house of bondage – to make you stray from the way in which יהוה your Elohim commanded you to walk. Thus you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Deu 13:1 (13:2) כי־יקום בקרבך נביא או חלם חלום ונתן אליך אות או מופת׃
Deu 13:2 (13:3) ובא האות והמופת אשׁר־דבר אליך לאמר נלכה אחרי אלהים אחרים אשׁר לא־ידעתם ונעבדם׃
Deu 13:3 (13:4) לא תשׁמע אל־דברי הנביא ההוא או אל־חולם החלום ההוא כי מנסה יהוה אלהיכם אתכם לדעת הישׁכם אהבים את־יהוה אלהיכם בכל־לבבכם ובכל־נפשׁכם׃
Deu 13:4 (13:5) אחרי יהוה אלהיכם תלכו ואתו תיראו ואת־מצותיו תשׁמרו ובקלו תשׁמעו ואתו תעבדו ובו תדבקון׃
והנביא ההוא או חלם החלום ההוא יומת כי Deu 13:5 (13:6) (I don't think the hebrew copies well :/ ) However, it's the same for the past 3324 years! - Yechezkel If we don't obey ADONAI, then we are catering to Satan. There is no in between; no "tolerance" which seems to be today's buzzword...."
ADONAI gave us His Torah to keep us safe and on His path as long as we are "inside the fence" of Torah and playing by the rules.
Proverbs 16:25: There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
"Torah has given us tremendous freedom - Freedom to know our Creator and His awesome Messiah through whom we are able to gain eternal life merely by "believing" in Him, and allowing the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit) to help us change from the inside-out to become the "new creatures" we were always meant to be." - 13 hours ago · Unlike · 1 person
Jeannie
Xtian Christ DID fulfill the law--He did not break one
commandment--the law was to show us how sinful we are-we all say
'little white lies'- we all have broken one of the commandments-to
-break one is like breaking them all-God does not hold one command
higher then another--the thief on the cross did nothing to deserve
Grace-but the Lord told him that that very same day he would be in
paradise (heaven)-
12 hours ago ·
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Brother #1 The
thief on the cross did nothing to deserve Grace? Is that an opinion?
Does your bible say he didn't keep the sabbaths? NO! You are only
assuming. Your bible says he rebuked the other thief for mocking
Messiah. It says he feared "God". It says he claimed he
deserved punishment....sounds like repentance to me. He did nothing
to deserve grace? Your opinion is not in the scriptures. Shalom.
12 hours ago ·
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Jeannie
Xtian the law was to show us that we need a Savior-we can't
do it on our own--He paid the price and all He asks is faith--like
the o.t. people like david.samuel etc--they are saved by their faith
ion the promise of the Messiah-not by what they do--and how do you
explain the harlot rahab??she is in Jesus' line-she is saved by
faith-not by lae
12 hours ago ·
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Jan
Wordly kosher law - manmade
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 The
only law that Yahoshu'ah knocked was the Oral Law of the religious
class. He never accepted a religion and didn't replace rabbinic
Judaism with yet another religion of Christianity :)
10 hours ago ·
Like · 1 person
Brother
#2 Yahowah established an "everlasting" Covenant
with Abraham that he is currently restoring visa vi the Mowed Miqra.
He fulfilled the first 4 spring Miqra and will fulfill the last three
fall miqra'ey designed to coincide with the fall of man ...
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 He
acted as the passover lamb , decended intpo Sheol for unleavened
bread , rose for First Fruits and 50 days later the Qodesh Ruach
decended on the followers of theway at the Miqra if Shabua or as you
know it in Greek Pentacost or 50 .
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 IOf
the Torah was done away with why were the followers meeting on the
Miqra od Shabu'a ?
10 hours ago ·
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Brother
#2 ????? Why did Constantine change the Shabbat to Sunday
under penalty of death 300 years later ?
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 The
Kosher law was man made it was and is part of the oral law of
rabbinic Judaism .
10 hours ago ·
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Brother
#2 Faith never saved anyone and that is a pagan idea besides
the very word faith comes from the Roman goddess of loyalty .
Knowledge trumps faith in the unknown .
10 hours ago ·
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Jan Worldly is
this really relative to what is going on in reality right now...
while all of you are, once again, dissecting what has been/will be
until eternity our country is in HELL.. our economy is about to
collapse, etc... what a distraction...
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 The
word is a distraction ? Exposing political and religious lies is what
I do all day .That is the Family business.
10 hours ago ·
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Jan Worldly no
all yhis DISCUSSION is a distraction... PAY ATTENTION to what's going
on around you
10 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 What
is bringing this country to it's knees are the religious and
political lies . Jan you better check out what is happening . Islam
and the left are one force now .
10 hours ago ·
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Brother
#1 Whats going on around you is the distraction. It fills
your mind with this world, thus not leaving time to notice what is
important. ADONAI and His Word. The world will devolve exactly as
written. No one can change that. It will be destroyed by the hands of
men, then rebuilt by the word of HaShem. The Word is the distraction?
10 hours ago ·
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William No.
He was not changing any law. No law was changed or annulled by the
appearance of The Messiah. Not a jot or a tittle.
9 hours ago ·
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Brother
#1 William has eyes to see. The Family is standing up and
being separated. HalleluYah!
9 hours ago ·
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Brother
#2 William that is only if you believe the word ....
9 hours ago ·
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William What
is 'the word'? Are we talking The Word, as in Scripture?
9 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 I
was ribbing you :) Of course the Word over tradition !!
9 hours ago ·
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Brother
#1 Shabbat Shalom, Family!
9 hours ago ·
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Brother #2 Have
a great Shabbos Brother #1!!
A perfect law for an imperfect people. You must accept the perfect blood sacrifice of YAHUSHUA ha MASHIACH to be forgiven of your sins and be repentant to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. You can be disobedient (disobeying the law) and still enter heaven if you Repent, but to say that the law was hung on the cross is false. Your iniquity (lawlessness) will disqualify you from the blessings of Deuteronomy 28 but not heaven if you truly Repent. You are responsible for what you know. If you read scripture, listen to the wisdom cited in these comments, and still fail to recognize that the law is still in effect, your blood guilt is your own.
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